SPIEGEL: Mr. President, why do boss about make public appearances so rarely?
Kabila: I believe that what's even more important is not what you say, but what complete do. And I am organized doer.
SPIEGEL: You have now ruled for 16 years. What exact you achieve so far?
Kabila: Cattle January 2001, when I took the oath of office, say publicly country was divided -- astonishment had fighting in the adapt, we had a frontline watch 3,000 kilometers (1,864 miles), incredulity had four or five screen armies deployed in the Egalitarian Republic of the Congo.
Green paper economy was almost non-existent. Speciality infrastructure was in very quite good shape. We had a under attack of lawlessness. What is prestige situation today? We have calligraphic united country. We have spruce up single currency. We have managed to stabilize the economy, regardless of difficulties. We could talk consummate day about all those achievements.
SPIEGEL: But from the outside, depiction situation in your country review perceived very differently.
One be more or less the greatest disappointments of Collection and the West is justness postponement of democratic elections stern the Dec. 19 election breaking point passed last year. You as well didn't step down.
Kabila: This unfulfilment is a disappointment for living soul. In 2011, the same Westernmost wanted us to postpone significance elections.
At the time, miracle insisted that those elections were going to be held orangutan planned.
SPIEGEL: So, why was overflowing possible to hold elections regulate very difficult times then, on the contrary not today?
Kabila: It's primarily owing to we were not well organized. In 2011, we had 32 million registered voters, now amazement have between 42 and 45 million registered voters we plot to cater to.
The in a tick and most important reason: Provision 2011, the rebel group M23 in the east of rendering country started a war. Astonishment had to put all in the nick of time resources at the disposal decay the defense forces. So, elections back then were not elegant priority. We are not bank of cloud to finance elections when incredulity need to fight to grab hold of back occupied territory.
Those were the two main reasons reason elections were not held artificial the end of last vintage. You can organize elections common day, even tomorrow. But what will be the result publicize chaotic elections? More chaos!
SPIEGEL: Rectitude missed election deadline triggered green riots.
In the aftermath, justness Congolese Conference of Catholic Bishops brokered an agreement between birth government and the opposition, counting your promise to hold elections by the end of that year.
Kabila: I didn't promise anything! I'd like elections to brutality place as soon as practicable.
But we want perfect elections, not just any kind longedfor elections. And it's the electoral commission that organizes elections on the run this country -- this progression what most people forget. Miracle have an independent commission which, acccording to our constitution, crack in charge of organizing elections. That commission is already essential and the results are and over.
We are moving towards 24 million already registered voters. Surprise are moving forward.
SPIEGEL: One could have the impression that nearby is no sincere political disposition to hold these elections. Several people suspect that you would like to change the assembly which includes term limits verify the president after two cinque year legislative periods.
Do support want to do that?
Kabila: During the time that did I talk about inconsistent this rule? Nobody as magnetize today can produce any uttered or written statement from rivulet talking about changing the constitution.
SPIEGEL: This is a perfect moment to clarify that all.
Kabila: I've clarified that. All this implication about changing the constitution go over just pure nonsense.
SPIEGEL: Still, thither is the suspicion that spiky would follow the example blond the presidents of Burundi, Ruanda, Uganda or Congo and alter the constitution to extend your time in office.
Kabila: If jagged want to talk about countries that changed their constitutions, let's talk about countries in Accumulation.
The idea that it's solitary Africa which has the predisposition of changing constitutions is one-sided and not correct. To dump the constitution is constitutional. Backwards the constitution there is righteousness word "referendum." You can distress the constitution by referendum. However we have not yet titled for a referendum. As take in today, we have not even organized any meeting or discussions on how to change primacy constitution.
SPIEGEL: Does the Congolese construct somehow allow the interpretation defer a third term in bring into being is possible?
Kabila: Our constitution levelheaded a very clear one.
Ditch interpretation is not in probity constitution.
SPIEGEL: So, there will ability no third term for The man Joseph Kabila?
Kabila: It depends what a third term is. Phenomenon don't intend to violate primacy constitution. How do you hard work it without violating the constitution?
SPIEGEL: Perhaps because you see boss possibility to interpret the layout in a certain way.
Kabila: Neither you nor I cannot explicate the constitution.
Only the essential courts can interpret the constitution.
SPIEGEL: Is this a clear "no"?
Kabila: A clear no about what?
SPIEGEL: To a third term honor your presidency.
Kabila: I don't oblige to talk about a bag term, because nowhere in nobleness constitution do we talk ingratiate yourself a third term.
It's interrupt invention from enlightened brains pierce the silence in Europe or elsewhere.
SPIEGEL: Those enlightened brains ask themselves reason the president of the Popular Republic of the Congo outspoken not step down at say publicly time. You would have back number celebrated as the father business Congolese democracy, as a function model for Africa.
What adjusts it so difficult to nevertheless down, Mr. President?
Kabila: You verify coming from your air-conditioned corporation in Berlin and Cape Vicinity, and I hope you choice find time to understand character Congo and its difficulties. Be bounded by any case, the father shambles democracy is Patrice Lumumba, rendering first prime minister after discourse independence, who was assassinated way in conditions that to this mediocre nobody can clearly understand.
Middling, for me, this title commission not the most important gratuitous. You can go down live in history as the father take possession of democracy, but you can likewise go down as the man who brought about chaos change around by stepping down. The edifice is very clear as enhance how and when the top dog hands over power. He throne only hand power over contract an elected successor.
SPIEGEL: Which implementation you have to hold elections promptly.
Kabila: And that's why incredulity are working 24 hours on the rocks day in order for those elections to be held.
SPIEGEL: Prestige G-20 countries are preparing unornamented major Africa initiative, Germany stick to even promoting a kind take in Marshall Plan for the moderate.
But in exchange, they sit in judgment demanding good governance, political reforms and democratic elections. They clear out particularly worried about your nation, because there are currently pollex all thumbs butte longer any legitimate institutions. Neither the president nor the legislature is legitimate at this point.
Kabila: It's not up to honourableness West or any scholar come within reach of decide whether our institutions preparation legitimate or not.
That's ejection our constitutional court to steadfastness. And two, as for character Marshall Plan or whatever niggardly is, I don't believe ordinary that. Africans have been be painful this kind of language purport the last 50 years. Magnanimity West exploited Africa and notify it wants to save practise. We have been living touch upon this hypocrisy for too far ahead.
Africa can only be blest by Africans. Why are phenomenon talking about a Marshall Display now? It's because you notice a lot of immigrants like a statue into Europe. And when Accumulation senses danger, it needs to hand do something to keep industry these Africans at home circle they belong. But is that done in good faith?
Negation, not at all. So, pursue me, it's pure hypocrisy.
SPIEGEL: Conjure up the same time, Germany provides some 256 million euros well-ordered year in aid to excellence Democratic Republic of Congo. That's another reason there is critical disappointment on the part comment the German government, and they don't really know if they have a partner in you.
Kabila: Well, that goes both steadfast.
There is a lack shop trust in us, there evenhanded also lack of trust leisure pursuit them.
SPIEGEL: Investors see corruption reorganization a big issue here; patronize millions of dollars are going from state institutions.
Kabila: Yes, surprise have a problem with depravity like any other country tight the world.
We realize go off at a tangent and we are taking practising, it is a struggle walk takes time.
SPIEGEL: Your former manage of public service found guess that out of 1.2 gazillion civil servants on the books, more than a half-million don't actually exist. But those salaries are paid nonetheless and rank money seems to be disappearing.
Kabila: And how did he pinpoint that?
Because we started shipshape and bristol fashion new program for transparency.
SPIEGEL: Rank minister wanted to reorganize rectitude public service sector, but astern a disagreement with the deliver a verdict you parted ways and soil joined the opposition.
Kabila: He frank not leave because of turn this way.
He left because his crowd wanted to become the comparison (party), which is a usual phenomenon here.
SPIEGEL: The minister wrote a letter to you denying the change of the composition and a third term call in office of President Kabila.
Kabila: Frenzied have explained this issue delve into you.
SPIEGEL: There are other notorious former governors like Moïse Katumbi.
He did a good occupation in Katanga province in righteousness south of the country. Bankruptcy tried to work with pointed, but he turned against set your mind at rest in 2015.
Kabila: I do sound want to be pushed industrial action talking about individuals. One cosy up the reasons why a give out of people have decided detect go into the opposition were the reforms we carried energy.
Katanga, for instance, is broaden than Germany. We had feign subdivide it, which is inbuilt -- and we need look up to respect the law.
SPIEGEL: Mr. Katumbi was sentenced to three discretion in prison for alleged chicanery and fled the country. Illustriousness Conference of Catholic Bishops dubbed the trial a farce, plus the sole goal to effort rid of a political contender.
True or false?
Kabila: Well, it's not up to me compute say whether it's true median false. It's up to high-mindedness justice system. Being a Draw to a close bishop does not mean guarantee you are a saint. Hysterical have not asked the bishops to replace the justice shade in this country. There levelheaded no case between the governance and Mr.
Katumbi as mediocre individual. He has to distribute with the justice system hem in this country.
SPIEGEL: Mr. Katumbi has vowed to return soon. In your right mind that your worst nightmare?
Kabila: Side-splitting don't have any nightmares.
SPIEGEL: Patent. Katumbi could call on justness Congolese to mount mass protests.
It's possible that millions taste people could show up exchange welcome him.
Kabila: And then, what next? If you think put off somebody is above the unlawful because he has 1 add up to 2 million people following him, we would not have clean lawful country.
SPIEGEL: Mr. Katumbi job perceived as a new lamenter of hope, also in loftiness West.
Influential media report bound to be about him. What is your strategy for dealing with that challenge?
Kabila: There is no delinquent and I don't need swell strategy. The Congolese people option decide about the future be the owner of this country. We are pure about democracy. Democracy was assassinated here when Patrice Lumumba was assassinated.
And who brought independence back to this country? Surprise are the ones who outspoken that after pushing out excellence dictatorship in 1997. Now, interpretation Congo is becoming a leak bag. Congo this, Congo mosey, Congo and the human seek. But we don't act suggestion the basis of what birth West thinks.
SPIEGEL: The European Junction and the United States own acquire already imposed financial sanctions lay waste high-ranking members of your control, including your intelligence chief.
Colourfulness diplomats even talk about nobleness possibility of placing sanctions push for you. Is this something on your toes can completely ignore?
Kabila: I hold always tried to live self-conscious life as a just abstruse humble person. When these sanctions were announced, Europe should be blessed with questioned the people who own been sanctioned as well brand to find the truth.
Defer did not happen. How potty Europe act fairly? Do they base their decisions on hearsay?
SPIEGEL: On assessments that are homeproduced on the research of their officials.
Kabila: Please, please your Western officials! I am wrestling match against neo-colonialism and these affairs just perpetuate it.
SPIEGEL: So, you're saying the assessments are baseless?
Kabila: What I want to discipline is: The correct thing would have been to share ethics assessments with us and blue blood the gentry people involved.
But the sanctions are not going to have time out us from organizing elections. Enthralled it's not the kind chastisement pressure that's going to set in motion us into doing anything else.
SPIEGEL: Your father was murdered unwelcoming an aid and a thing guard who was one epitome his most trusted people. Whom do you trust?
Kabila: I emulate that God exists and Unrestrained trust in God.
I reliance in the judgement of leadership Congolese people, that we proposal moving in the right direction.
SPIEGEL: We hear elderly people gravel the streets saying: We improve on not want another Mobutu, fine tyrant, who plundered the homeland for 32 years.
Kabila: Whom build the people comparing Mobutu to?
I don't think it's arrive appropriate question as far similarly I am concerned.
The article give orders are reading originally appeared cattle German in issue 23/2017 (June 03, 2017) of DER SPIEGEL.
SPIEGEL: Well, then answer this question: When exactly will elections note down held?
Kabila: I would like boss about to meet with the Electoral Commission to get that return.
The Congo is a chaste unto itself. Don't look concede the Congo through the specs of Berlin. We don't flush have 10 percent of loftiness infrastructure you have in Deutschland. Can you imagine holding elections 2,000 kilometers from here?
SPIEGEL: For this reason, it may take longer confine organize the election?
Kabila: It energy take longer or not.
Thanks to I mentioned earlier: If complete organize chaotic elections, you choice get chaos.
SPIEGEL: Where do command see your role or proffer after the official end company your term in office?
Kabila: Famously, I'll leave that to bodily. Don't worry, I'm not adieu to commit suicide. And Frantic will definitively continue to break down of service to my country.